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Nina Jacobson and Francis Lawrence by TOM JAMIESON/STR
We were honored to be among a group of select fandom accounts that Lionsgate invited to Las Vegas for an exclusive 3 day trailer launch event for The Hunger Games:The Ballad of Songbirds And Snakes during CinemaCon. This fandom trip of a lifetime included a viewing of the first official trailer the day before anyone else at a private event within The Hunger Games Exhibition, and a Q&A with director Francis Lawence and producer Nina Jacobson.
This Q&A is a long one, but if you're a huge fan of the books and films there are so many details from Francis and Nina that you won't want to miss.
TV presenter Nikki Novak hosted the Q&A and took our questions afterward.
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: We shot [Ballad] last year in Germany and Poland. Very, very proud of it, and we wanted you guys to be the first ones to see the trailer.
NINA JACOBSON: It's so fun to watch them watch it.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: I know.
NINA JACOBSON: That was so exciting watching you guys watch it. It was really thrilling.
NIKKI NOVAK: Yeah, we were watching all of you and it must be so rewarding. So first of all, congratulations to both of you. Just wanted to ask, you read Suzanne's book, and what was the vision? Like, how did you sort of go about tackling this new film and bringing in elements of the original, but then making it something completely new?
NINA JACOBSON: Well, I think one of the things that was so exciting about the book was that, on the one hand, it's so deeply steeped in the mythology of the original books and movies, and a story that everybody who's watched it or read it, knows so well.
And on the other hand, you know, Lucy Gray is the polar opposite of Katniss Everdeen. It doesn't feel like it's trying to duplicate. It's sort of striking out, and on one hand, it’s really new ground and a completely different visual language because it's a period movie. It's very different visually, which Francis can speak to. But also, she's such a different character.
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And then, to see a young Snow, somebody who we've spent all of these movies fearing and loathing. And to understand who he was, and how he became who he was, was a really rewarding experience in book, and also really thrilling experience to bring it to life as a film.
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NIKKI NOVAK: Francis, you and I were talking a little bit before we began about you meeting Rachel for the first time and having a four-hour meeting. I mean, it's so obvious. She is the real-life songbird, but why was she the person that you wanted for this film, and what did she bring to this film?
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: I mean, you know, one of the things is just that she's one of the most talented young actresses out there right now. But, you know, the character of Lucy Gray is a really tricky one, right? Because she's a mercurial character, right? So she's emotional, but she's also damaged, and she's lived quite a lot more honestly than the character of Snow has. But she also has to be a fantastic singer. And you know, Rachel's a phenomenal singer.
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And so, yeah, we sat down and talked about the character and talked about the books and just had a fantastic meeting.
NIKKI NOVAK: And talk about casting Tom in the role. I mean, how many people did you see? And why was he the guy? I mean, you look at him, and he's extraordinary to look at, but he has such a presence. Yeah, I said it. [laugh]
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: [laugh]
NIKKI NOVAK: Thank you. [laugh]
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: No, I mean, we saw a lot of people, I will say. And there were, you know, a few people that sort of piqued our interest, and then, Tom kind of came out of the blue for us, honestly. We didn't really know much about him, didn't know who he was. And he came in, and we saw a reading of his with our casting director that was just great. I mean, he was magnetic, and he's so good at his craft. I mean, you know, he's an English actor. He's a Juilliard graduate. He really loves acting and really studies acting and really cares and really works. But also, there's the resemblance to Donald Sutherland. And so, you know, all those factors combined kind of made him the guy.
I'd also say that there's an element of him that is very controlled, which Snow is, and Donald is, that I liked very much for the role.
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NIKKI NOVAK: And then, watching the two of them. I mean, there's always the script. But then there's always that intangible thing between actors. Maybe you can talk a little bit about what you witnessed on set and their unique dynamic.
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NINA JACOBSON: Well, one of the things that was really great was that the three of them, you know, Josh, who plays Sejanus, who happens to be Rachel's boyfriend.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Yes.
NINA JACOBSON: And he was cast before she was actually. She didn't get him cast. I think, you know, we fell in love with him. I didn't even realize that that's who he was when we fell in love with his audition.
NIKKI NOVAK: Really?
NINA JACOBSON: No, I didn't know
NIKKI NOVAK: Oh, my gosh.
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NINA JACOBSON: I was like, "Oh! Oh!" But the three of them, like, really became good friends very quickly, really enjoyed hanging out. And so, all of the, like, weird dynamics that can come from playing opposite somebody in a romantic role, especially, like, it could've been weird, but instead, they all had this really great foundation of a friendship. They had a great time with each other. They really bonded as a cast. I mean, the whole group, all of our tributes, especially, were around for a long time from the very beginning. And they all really came together. But I think one of the things that we really saw in Tom's audition, especially, is that part of his craft is he's incredibly focused on his scene partner. He brings so much attention to that person. And so, you never feel like he's in a scene, and that person's also in it, the scene gets discovered by both of them really, on the day, in the moment no matter how much they might rehearse going into it. They both, I think, found so much more in the way that they interacted, and they both really shaped each other's performance through their interactions, which was really a great and gratifying thing to see.
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Yeah, I will say the one thing, you know, I'm always nervous about, especially with romantic leads in a movie, is gonna be chemistry. And so, Tom was cast before Rachel as well. And when we were close to closing the deal with Rachel, we decided to do a Zoom chemistry test.
NIKKI NOVAK: A Zoom chemistry test. Okay.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: It was a Zoom chemistry test, which seems weird, but that's all sort of born out of the pandemic.
NIKKI NOVAK: Okay, yeah.
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: But it was actually pretty damn magical, I will say. And I had talked to her a lot about the character. I sort of dumped on her for about an hour and a half all about the character. And what I wanted her to do first in the Zoom was to sing to him acapella. And a lot of the songs in the movie are sort of based in the style of 1920s, 30s Appalachian music.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: And one of my favorite songs from that era was the song called "Wildwood Flower." And I wanted her to do an acapella version of it, so she learned this acapella version, and she has an impeccable voice. And so, we got some small talk out of the way, and then she just sang this song. And you could just see it just with the way he was watching her and the way she was singing to him, even though, you know, she was in London. I think he was in New York. I think I was in France. Like, we were all in different places when this happened. And so, we sort of knew the chemistry was gonna be great just from that.
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NIKKI NOVAK: Let's talk about the chemistry of the rest of the cast. Somebody we might've heard of, Viola Davis, a young actress that's just starting out in the business. I mean, what an incredible cast. Peter Dinklage, Jason Schwartzman, who is giving me such Caesar vibes with his performance. Love it. So, if you can talk about rounding out the cast with these stellar actors.
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Yeah, I mean, Nina and I wanted Viola from the very, very beginning and just tried to do everything to make it work. And Viola and I had a little bit of a relationship beforehand. We're developing another movie together. And so, I went to her. And this has happened before where there's certain actors you go to. It happened with Phil Hoffman in the other movies, where you approach them about something and they've heard of it, but they don't really know it. They haven't seen the movies. They haven't read the books. So she just had to educate herself in the movies and the books a little bit and talk to her teenage daughter about it some. And then she agreed to do it. But the great thing is, is because Suzanne just writes really thematic material, it ends up drawing fantastic talent. And that's how we get people like Viola and Peter and Jason.
NIKKI NOVAK: Absolutely.
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NINA JACOBSON: We started out, too, because we did the arena work first in Poland, so we started out with all of the kids, and so our adults didn't show up until later. And by then, we were like, "What's it gonna be like when the grown-ups get here. Are they gonna be really serious?" And these are really serious, phenomenal actors. And all of them, all three of them, really, they were so into it, and they had so much fun with it.
And I think that when you have someone like Viola, you try to compress her work so that she's not there forever. You can have the kids there forever, but you try to get your big stars' work compressed. So you don't know, will they be like a visitor, or will they be at home, or will they be family? And they really did, they were so into it, and they were really, I think, Francis runs an incredibly warm, fun set that is, like, people enjoy being on.
NINA JACOBSON: But they all just brought so much to it, and we just sort of watched them, you know, warm. And you can't take your eyes off of them.
NIKKI NOVAK: So, before I return the questions over to you lovely people, one last question. What we saw looks incredible. I know it's just the tip of the iceberg, so can you sort of let everybody know, what are they in for with this film that comes out in November?
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: I mean, look, I'm really proud of it. One of the things that really interested me in the novel itself was just the scope of the story. And also the fact that it's an origin story, not just of a character that we all know from the other series but the origin of Panem and the origin of the Games. And so to be able to go back 64 years and revisit what the Capitol might look like not long after a war in this sort of reconstruction era. And so, when we started, I think I was just really pleased because I felt like, almost instantly on set, I felt like, "Oh, wow, like, I feel like we're back in the Hunger Games. We're really making a Hunger Games movie again." But it felt fresh, and it felt new, and the tone is a little different, and I think the tone is a little grittier and I would even say a little more somehow authentic. And the casting choices of the tributes and the mentors, it just has an originality, even though it really sits firmly in the Hunger Games world. So, I'm really excited for everybody to see it.
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NIKKI NOVAK: So am I. [laughs] Okay, so I see hands raised
SCOTT: Hi, thank you so much. Scott Orlin. I'm with Cinema Magazine. The first films there was kind of a politicalness about them, really reflective about the outcasts of society and how disposable people were and how the government worked. Now we're going back 64 years or so. Do we get into the origins of that as well? And talk a little bit about the politics of what these stories represent because they're entertainment, but there's also another structure.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Yeah. I think those elements are still a part of this story, but Suzanne, when she wrote the first three, basically wrote based on an idea, and based on a theme of the consequence of war. And so if you look at the first three books and first four movies, they're sort of all dealing with different sort of facets of the consequence of war. This one really, at its core level philosophically as it's sort of about the state of nature debate, right? It's like what people really are at their core. Are they savage? Are they loving? Are they deserving of freedoms and rights? And that's kind of the sort of philosophical conflict of this movie.
NIKKI NOVAK: Are they songbirds, or are they snakes?
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Tiffany From @thgprequel on instagram: Thank you. Awesome. Before I ask my question, I just want to say this means so much to all of us to have us here, and we know that this wouldn't be a project that we would have faith in unless you guys were a part of it. So, thank you for that. But I just wanted to ask, was there any initial hesitation when you first were approached with this project? Maybe will the story live up to what we have in our head, or the film in general and the actors in the scenes? Like, was there any hesitation in mind, even before you read the novel about this project in general?
NINA JACOBSON: I think there's always, with a sequel, you know, there's always above all else, do no harm. So you always worry. If you have something that people loved or cherished, it's always sort of scary to go back and what if you break that trust with your audience? But because Suzanne is such a really, genuinely thoughtful author, and her books also are so --it's interesting how they sit in history.
The first books were really both during the Forever Wars, and the endless struggles in Iraq and Afghanistan and the consequences of those wars as well as, at the same time, the ascendance of American Idol and reality television. And so, they only became more pertinent and timely and Katniss as the reluctant revolutionary felt so much of a hero for her time. And now, the kind of question about who we really are, and are we, let's say, are we worthy of freedom? Are we unable to handle freedom? What is the allure of authoritarianism? And why are people drawn to surrendering control to the government?
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And what makes a person want to have that kind of control? It just felt so, again, of its time on the one hand, but it also brought so much dimension. The reason that we love our fans so much is because we're fans with you. Honestly, I think we have the best fanship out there. We were talking about this before, before we were even here.
AUDIENCE: [applause]
NINA JACOBSON: You know, we have such a smart, thoughtful, passionate, artistic, genuinely creative, additive fanship in a way that I think anybody would be jealous of, how much you guys bring to the whole thing. And so, I think knowing that we would be able to sort of bring these dimensions, on the one hand, for the people who know everything about it, and then on the other hand, that the story really stood on its own two legs for somebody maybe who hasn't seen any of the movies.
And when we first started to show the movie, we want to make sure to have people who don't know anything about it, haven't seen the movies. Now that it's been on Netflix, that group has gotten smaller.
NIKKI NOVAK: For sure.
NINA JACOBSON: You know, it's a whole new generation discovering it. Which has been really exciting. But I think that knowing that it felt like it would register, both be a really enriching and rewarding for the fans, we hope, but also had so much to say and so much to offer that's so different than the other movies for newer audiences. I think that helped us get over the hump. But sure, like, when we first sat down to read it, we were like, "Well, what are we gonna do if, like, we don't love it? That'll be awkward."
AUDIENCE: [laughs]
NINA JACOBSON: But luckily, that didn't happen.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Yeah, I just would say, you know, Suzanne was done with this after The Mockingjays. Like, she was done, right? And so, when she got this new idea, I sort of instantly had faith in her and the idea because I think she really, genuinely only writes these things when there's, like, a deep, thematic thing that's, like, grabbed a hold of her and makes her think that it's deserving of one of these stories. And so, I just had faith in that and faith in her.
Audience question: I just want to ask you guys about the aesthetic a little. As I was watching the trailer, it was really interesting to me to see, you know, sort of the period picture nature of it. You have kind of like an alt-reality to begin with, so how much did you discuss, how do we make this look familiar as the world of the Hunger Games but then put stuff in, like the Tube TV and things that we kind equate to our past?
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Well, honestly, we worked with a fantastic production designer guy named Uli Hanisch, who I loved from Babylon Berlin. Obviously, he's done lots of stuff, but when the pandemic started, I got hooked on that show. And he was available, and we started talking. And the inspiration for us was kind of reconstruction-era Berlin, right? So, looking at a lot of this footage following the end of the war in '45 and seeing how Berlin was rebuilt. And that's kind of where we started, and we shot most of the Capitol stuff in Berlin, so we had this weird combination of using real architecture that inspired us. And starting to lean from the sort of old idea of what Panem might've been and into what Panem is going to grow to in the previous films. So, lots of the big landscapes and cityscapes, there's a lot of construction happening. There's cranes and construction, unfinished buildings.
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And, you know, a huge part of it too is sort of the beginning of the arena, in the previous movies, there are these really elaborate, Catching Fire sort of tropical arena and these huge domes and water and spinning cornucopias. And when the Games began they were just in an enclosed arena with, you know, a wall. There was really nothing there except weapons. And so, that was really fun to just go back and think about what the origins of all this would be and what that could look like and how it could be in the middle of the transition from old to new.
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CHLOE: Thanks. Hi, I'm Chloe Williams from Brit + Co, and I would love to hear, well, you talked a little bit about the commentary of all of the different stories. And one of my favorite things, if not my favorite thing about this story in particular, is that whole idea of songbird versus snakes and goodness versus evil, light versus dark, and the complexity that everyone has those things in them. And I'd love to hear why you think it's important for this to come out right now, especially with this new generation of fans who might not have been a part of it last time.
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NINA JACOBSON: Well, I do think that, you know, when I was in college, one of the theorists that I was studying said this thing, which is that ideology is the polarization of things which are not in fact opposite, and the assigning to one of those things of a positive value. I think Suzanne is very leery, especially in the times that we live in that are deeply polarized, to assume that there is no crossover, that we have nothing in common with each other, and always incredibly important to Suzanne that nobody is just a songbird or just a snake.
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And you see, you know, obviously Rachel, (Lucy Gray Baird) she's saying she's a songbird, and you also see that she's the one holding snakes, loves snakes, that we're not as simple and easily reduced and easily written off as we all might like to think we are right now. And during this particular time where we have so lost touch with each other and that kind of ability to find that, the Yin and the Yang, there's a bit of a both in all of us.
And no matter how much you might think you're one or the other, there's always the other thing inside of you, and that gives you also a way to connect with the other person who might be the other one because there's always some of the other side inside of them too. And so, it did feel really pertinent right now because even since the first movies came out, the way that we feel about each other, certainly in the States, has really changed, and not necessarily in a good way. And so taking these two people from such opposite places, who sort of assume that they would hate each other. He (Coriolanus Snow) says from the book, you know, when Tigris is telling him to win her over, he's like, "She's hates us, and she knows we hate her." And the fact that they're able to find this place of connection is part of what's so romantic about it, but it's also really timely because we all could use a little bit more of that.
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FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Yeah, and I also think that something that's very relatable is the idea of, one of the things that appealed to me is that Snow really is this character, at least in the beginning, who doesn't really know who he is. He sort of has a sense of knowing what he wants to be, but he doesn't know who he is at a core and really doesn't have a firm belief system. And part of the fun of the story is the characters around him keep kind of pulling him into these different directions. Am I gonna go sort of the way Dr. Gaul, the Viola way, or am I gonna go toward the Lucy Gray way of thinking? And I just think that's really relatable. I mean, I think back to being 18 and also going to college and taking philosophy classes, and you hear one thing, and you go, "Yeah, that's the way it all works." And then you hear another thing, and you're like, "Oh, wait a second. That's actually the way it all works." [laughs] And I just think everybody kind of goes through that in their own way.
NINA JACOBSON: It was a great question. You all are very deep. Fantastic questions.
AUDIENCE: [applause]
NIKKI NOVAK: Thank you for the film. Thank you for your passion, and thanks to all of you for joining. This has been really great. So, for all of the press that are here, I think you all can go and join and have a cocktail now. And for all of our wonderful influencers and bloggers, you can stay. We have one more special thing for you guys. Thanks, everybody.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE: Thank you.
NINA JACOBSON: Thanks, you guys.
A photographer snapped some pics (hopefully coming soon!) and then we had more time to talk to our heroes, Francis and Nina. They were so gracious with us and probably would have stood there answering our questions all night.
I asked how long the final cut was. Francis said, after a long pause and a smile, “I can’t say. We don’t have the final run time down yet and I don’t want to get locked in. It’s going to be the longest one.” I did let him know that we all are here for the longest movie and want to see EVERYTHING.
Francis and Nina said that they’ve screened the movie for author Suzanne Collins and she loved it.
The Hunger Games:The Ballad of Songbirds And Snakes hits theaters November 17th.